remember, read his full op-ed at cnn.com/opinion. thank you for watching "cnn sunday morning." glad you could join discuss have your first cup of coffee with us. we'll look forward to seeing you next weekend. "state of the union with candy crowley" starts right away. politics, policy, and theater. it's state of the union season in washington. today, president obama readies his state of the union message, a chance to lay out details of an aggressive second-term agenda. >> our economy grows when everybody is getting a fair shot and everybody getting a fair shake and everybody playing by the same rules. >> a prequel with senator rand paul of kentucky. the tea party response to the president. and then an independent voice in a partisan senate. >> the fifth amendment is pretty clear. no deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process of law. and we're depriving american

citizens of their life when we target them with drone attacks. >> our exclusive with senator angus king of maine and robert gates with the case for drones and the future of u.s. troops in afghanistan. >> i strongly believe 3,000 is too little. and 30,000 is too many. >> then our political panel on the state of the union watching and the new chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. plus, the high price of a penny. i'm candy crowley. and this is "state of the union." engining mow now from his home state of kentucky, senator rand paul. thank you for joining thus morning. you are going to deliver the tea party response to the president's state of the union. why is that needed? you have an "r" behind your name and so does marco rubio, who

will deliver the republican response. >> there is a movement in the republican party, that is very vocal. in the 2010 election, there was a lot of the movement that helped us win elections and they consider themselves mostly to be republican, they will occasionally chastise the republican establishment. they want an independent voice. >> is that what you intend to do? chastise the republican establishment? >> no, but i think really there are some things that i will emphasize that marco doesn't. >> like what? >> doesn't mean we necessarily disagree. >> i don't know. i haven't heard his speech yet. there are things i will talk about. the president likes to talk about a balanced approach. we'll talk about a balanced budget and how that would be good for the economy. the president likes to say everybody needs to pay their fair share, which means he wants to raise taxes. i'll talk about the republican message which is we believe you stimulate the economy by reducing taxes. not revenue neutral.

i mean really reducing taxes, cutting corporate tax in half. cutting personal income tax, and the fact that you sometimes bring in more revenue when you cut tax rates. >> you are joined by fellow republicans, some of whom aren't associated with the tea party in your quest for real cuts and not just cuts in the growth. i want to get back to senator rubio, both delivering responses to the president. he was on the cover of "time" magazine as the new face of the republican party. he has tea party support. when you look at that and you look at the republican party, do you and he represent different parts of the republican party? are you rivals? who is the face of the republican party right now? >> i don't think anybody gets to choose who is the face is or say you or someone else is the face. i think we do the best to promote what we believe in. one of the things have talked about, that there aren't a lot of other republicans talking

about. we shouldn't send foreign aid to people who are burning our flag and chanting death to america. i think i represent a wing of the republican party that doesn't want to send good money after bad to egypt. i would put strings on the money to pakistan. i would say to pakistan, you don't get more money until you release the doctor that helps us get bin laden. there are things that distinguish a lot of different republicans. it means there is a tea party wing that's interested in not sending money to people who are not acting like our allies. >> does it mean that democrats see a split in the republican spae party, so much it requires two responses to the state of the union? >> i see it as an extra response, i don't see it as divisive. i won't say anything like marco

rube rubio is wrong. this isn't about he and i. this is about the tea party this is a grassroots movement, a real movement with millions of americans that are concerned about some. deal making that goes on in washington. concerned about the fact that we are borrowing $50,000 a second. none of the things i ran on as part of the tea party have been fixed. we're still going down a hole as far as the debt crisis looming and so we really have to still talk about spending and we want to make sure there is still a voice for that. >> one of the things that is always sort of looked for in the state of the unit address is the fill in the blank question, the state of the union is -- what? what will you say the state of the union is? >> well, i think it's still robust in the sense we still have greatness as a country. but there's a lot of things that beleaguer us, and debt is number one. debt is costing us a million jobs a year. the economy slowed in the last quarter.

i really think we have to do something about how enormous government is. and the way tea party folks see this, i have to balance my budget at home, why shouldn't government? we don't understand these other explanations and these people -- the president caterwauling about the sequester. so are many republicans. tea party folks are saying it's a pittance. just the beginning. $1 trillion and increase spending $9 trillion. even with the sequester, spending goes up 7 trillion or 8 trillion over the next eight years. we're not getting close to scratching the surface. >> let me ask you about kentucky politics. you said you will support senator mitch mcconnell, up for re-election in 2014. do you believe he will face a tea party challenge? >> i think it's unlikely. i haven't heard any republican challenger come forward. i don't know. i haven't heard of any challenger coming forward. >> i want to play for awe an ad

that american crossroads released on february 6th. about ashley judd the actress and activist, quite active in the president's campaign. she has been mentioned as a democratic challenger to mitch mcconnell. here is part of the ad. >> ashley judd, who is right at home here in tennessee, i mean kentucky. >> when you see an ad this far out, from a republican group, it says to me that maybe senator mcconnell, a republican leader in the senate, is in a little trouble. is he at this point looking weak? >> you know, when i heard ashley judd might run for office, i thought maybe it was parliament, since she lives in scotland half of the year. i think part of politics making sure people know who you are running against. ashley judd is a famous actress,

an attractive woman, and presents herself well and from what i understand is articulate, but the thing is, she doesn't really represent kentucky. she was a representative for tennessee last year, she lives in tennessee, so i think you need to make sure people know that. >> we have some confirmations coming up much. the lew confirmation for treasury secretary. hagel for defense and brennan for the cia. will you vote against any of those men? >> i'm most concerned about brennan. i will demand answers this week. senator widen asked can they do drone strikes in the united states? and brennan went on talking about optimizing transparency and never answered the question. until i get an answer can a

drone strike kill an american in america. can you kill an american in america with only the president's word? i will demand an answer to that question. and it's very unseemly that a politician gets to decide the death of an american citizen. they should answer about the 16-year-old boy, alawaki's son that was killed in a separate strike. if you go overseas, take up arms, i'm probably for executing you, i want to hear the evidence, have a judge and jury. it can be fairly swift, but there needs to be a trial for treason, the president, a politician, republican or democrat, should never get to decide someone's death flipping through flash cards, do you want to kill him? i don't know. let's go ahead and kill him. >> a question for john brennan at the cia and yes forthe other two? >> i haven't decided really. hagel has been really struggling, so -- >> thanks.

>> a we'll check back in with you later. rand paul from kentucky, we'll look for you tuesday night. one of two independents in the senate, a bridge builder and problem solver, questioned both john brennan and chuck hagel during confirmation hearings. not bad for a guy in office 2 3 8 da -- 38 days. angus king is up next. when you have diabetes...

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then you're going to love this. right now they're only $14.95! wow-a grt deal just got a whole lot better. hurry. $14.95 won't last. it won't be smooth. it won't be simple. there will be frustrations. >> president obama speaking thursday at the house democratic retreat in northern virginia. those comments, delivered five

days before the state of the union address, are intended to rally the troops ahead of a busy legislative schedule. joining me now, maine independent senator angus king. very good to see you here in your first couple of months up in the u.s. senate. one of the things that as an independent you have talked about is being that bridge between republicans and democrats to try and get some work done up there. with that in mind, i wonder if you would talk to me about what tone you would like to see the president take on tuesday night at the state of the union. a lot of talk post election about how he's more aggressive now, much less willing to deal with republicans. >> mathematics, he still has to deal with republicans. a republican house, a senate, with a democratic majority. the way the rules work, there is substantial power and as bill clinton would say, it's ar rit

arithmetic. you use the word diplomatic. you can disagree without being disagreeable. and that's a tone he has to take. confident, strong, and yet being open to other ideas and compromises and getting the work done. >> how have you felt that he has done toward that end since the election? do you agree with the commentary that the president has been -- seen much less willing to want to deal with republicans. do you agree with that? >> put yourself in his shoes. he came in talking about bipartisanship and working together and didn't get very far. got zero votes on health care, very few on the stimulus package if any from one or two from republicans, three in the senate. he was ready to take a more aggressive stance. he won the election pretty

solidly and he feels -- who am i advising the president of the united states? like giving ted williams batting tips. but he -- it seems to me strong, confident, but a strong and confident person also listens and is sure to make compromises when the time comes. the other thing, candy, being around the capitol for a couple of months and you mentioned 38 days, there's sometimes gratuitous name calling. partisanship for partisanship's sake. in my opinion, nobody has a monopoly or good ideas, nobody has a monopoly on solutions and the aggressive stuff -- those are bad guys and we are good guys, that doesn't move the ball very far. >> if you were writing the president's speech, how would you describe the state of the union? >> i would describe the state of

the union as strong and getting stronger. having been through a tough time in american history in terms of two wars, a major recession, but the economy does seem to be coming back. i think the lowering of gdp and the last quarter was something of an aberration. i think it has to do with congress' failure to deal with entirely fiscal cliff issue, but housing is up, manufacturing is showing a little sign of life, so i would say the state of the union is strong, and as always, we've got more to do. no accident that the framers started the constitution using the phrase, in order to form a more perfect union. >> it can always get better, right? >> there is always room to make it better. >> when you questioned john brennan, the cia nominee to be director of the cia, particularly about the targeting of americans who may have joined

and be deadly terrorists and are still americans, by these drones. you think someone other than just the president and a small group of people should decide who theically you kill, particularly when it comes to american citizens. i want to talk to you about that. but read something from an editorial this morning. in the "chicago tribune" in part, it says this. one more layer of oversight reduces the advantages of immediacy and surprise. we don't want drone operators hoping their targeted terrorist will stay on a rooftop in pakistan while a court in washington debates whether it's appropriate to eliminate him. what's your thoughts? >> that misunderstands the circumstance. if you're talking about an immediate strike, that's a commander in chief job and i'm certainly not questioning that, but on the other hand, my understanding is, and this isn't based on classified information,

but generally available information, that strikes are often planned weeks in advance, the moment of the strike may take place because of intelligence that the person is on a rooftop or wherever they are. but the identification of the individual as a member of a terrorist group, as an imminent threat to the interest of the united states, that's not -- there is some time involved there. and that's what provoked me to ask the question i did of mr. brennan. she here is a case -- i don't know how often this will happen. but i agree with rand paul. the fifth amendment says that no person shall denied life, liberty or pursuit of happiness. these may be americans that have committed treason by signing up with another country or another group against us, but i think -- it just makes me uncomfortable that the president, whoever it

is, is the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, and the executioner, all rolled into one. so i'm not suggesting something that would slow down response, but where there is time to go in, submit it to a third party, that is, a court, in confidence, and get a judgment that, yes there, is sufficient evidence here, that just feels to me like that's -- it's not full compliance with the fifth amendment. some say these people should have a whole trial. i don't believe that. but think some independent check on the executive is healthy for our system. >> final question with less than a minute left. i want to ask about gun control. maine a big hunting territory for so many people, i know you agree with a lot of things that are being suggested there on gun control. are you against an assault weapons ban or for it? >> i would say i'm skeptical. i am leaning against it, simply because what i want to focus on is the functionality, not the

looks, and i've seen folks. you can take exactly the same mechanics of a gun and change the stock from a wooden stock to a folding stock and put something on the barrel, and it suddenly meets the definition of an assault weapon when it isn't functioning any different. >> got you. >> we need to focus on what will work, and that's universal background checks and perhaps limits on magazines. >> representative angangus king your time. what is the right number of troops in afghanistan? a conversation with robert gaes is next. oh!

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is. the white house says that drone strikes even against american citizens are "legal, ethical, and wise." i sat down with robert gates that served as defense secretary for presidents bush and obama and ask if he had concerns about the increased use of stealth fighters. >> i'm a big advocate of drones. when i was the director of central intelligence, i tried to get the air force to partner with us in building drones.

they didn't want to, because they had no pilot. when i became secretary, i had more say over how the air force spent its money and we significantly ramped up the number of drones. drones are immensely useful in two respects. first of all, for reconnaissance, intelligence, surveillance, because they can dwell over a target for an extended period of time, so you get pattern of life and you can really see what's going on. so they are an immense asset from an intelligence standpoint from a strike standpoint, they are very precise. the same thing in terms of being able to dwell, they can wait until a target is by himself or a facilityity is abandoned on or something if they are going to strike it. if they see people moving into the area, they can hold off, because they can see it all. the people who are driving the -- are driving the drones, so you can -- you can far more

easily limit collateral damage with a drone than you can can with a bomb, even precision guided munition off an airplane. >> are yyou are not saying inno people do not die? >> no, but first i believe the numbers are extremely small, and, second, you have the ability to limit the collateral damage more than with any other weapons system that you have. >> let me ask you about the idea of targeting americans, al alawaki has been the most out there. he is a known terrorist, said hateful violent things against the ugs. associated with -- a big player in al qaeda and he was nonetheless an american citizen and as we are lead to believe, it's the president who okays a kill list and that would include american citizens. should that be a broader authority? >> i think that the idea -- you know, we have this foreign

intelligence surveillance court that approves the use of electronic surveillance on american citizens. have y you have independent person, a federal judge, outside of the federal branch making a judgment, for electronic surveillance. something similar, whether it's a panel of three judges or one judge. something that would give the american people confidence that -- that there was, in fact, a compelling case to be -- to launch an attack against an american citizen. i think just as an independent of confirmation or affirmation if you will is something worth giving serious consideration to. i think the rules and practices that the obama administration has followed are -- are quite

stringent and are not being abused. but who is to say about a future president? and so i think -- i think this idea of being able to execute in effect an american citizen, no matter how awful, having some third party being -- having a say in it or perhaps some informing the congress or the -- intelligence committees or something like that, i just -- i think some check on the ability of a president to do this has merit as we look to the longer-term future. >> when it became known that the bush administration was using enhanced interrogation techniques on certain folks that had been captured, the outrage was immediate. and yet we have the u.s.

targeting an american -- an american citizen and killing an american citizen and we see that the u.se of drenones widely appe by the american people and not much until recently out of congress. how do you account in the difference in the reaction? are they entirely separate? is that i curious thing? >> how about politics? >> i'll go for that. and in what way? >> i think by a certain point, virtually nothing president bush did was going to win approval by anybody. and -- and anything he did was condemned from the surge to various other things, and i just think that that certainly plays a part in it. and particularly a lot of our political leaders have no problem talking about both sides out of their mouth when it comes

to issues like these. >> what's your biggest concern post 2014 about afghanistan's future? >> i think it's very important that we maintain some kind of serious residual presence in afghanistan for training of the afghan forces and for counterterrorism. i think that kin of residual presence is absolutely critical. to signal to afghans we aren't abandoning them as we did after we drove the soviets out, but as a message to the taliban and neighbors that were not walking away either. >> you were around for the iraq war and around for much of the war in afghanistan, so i feel like you have a pretty good feel on what enough forces would be. is 3,000 too little? do you have any sense of that?

>> i guess the way i would put it, just in stinctively, i think 3,000 is too little and 30,000 is too many. finding the goldilocks number. i think 30,000, i think it's too high in cost for us and in terms for the afghans themselves. more a political question than a military question. >> and finally, coming up to the state of the union. you know how this works, everybody wants to hear a certain thing, depending on which department you're in. from the point of view of the military and the world at large and america's place in it, what do you look for when the president gives this speech on tuesday? >> well, it's -- it's hard to say sort of off the top of my head. i think that clearly i would like to hear something about

let's figure out a way to avoid the sequestration on the budget, which i think will be catastrophic. and because so much has already been cut over the next ten years in the military, so i think -- i think something about -- about how we're going to try and get our financial house in order and how we can avoid the sequestration, particularly on the defense side. >> secretary gates, really good to see you again. >> good to see you. >> i appreciate your time this morning. >> thank you. up next, the northeast begins digging out from under several feet of snow. an update on this weekend's monster storm, when we come back. and later, new jersey senator bob menendez' troubles seem to be mounting. can he ride out the political storm.

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time for a check of today's headlines. president obama has just issued an emergency declaration for the state of connecticut. the entire northeast is beginning dig out from up to three feet of snow. at least nine deaths are blamed on a storm that pounded the region this weekend. power crews working to restore electricity to 400,000 resident. all major airports are starting

to resume flights after more than 5,000 were canceled because of the blizzard. the los angeles police chief says he is reopening an investigation into the termination of former officer christopher dorner. dorner is still at large, suspected in the killings of three people. the search for him has focused on the san berardino mountains after his pickup was found burning there. in a manifesto, he declared war on the lapd and their families after a firing. and this just in. a report is disputing allegations that he covered up child sex abuse by jerry sandusky. the report, released this hour, calls the findings of an earlier investigation conducted on balance of penn state "factually wrong, speculative and fundamentally wrong." joe paterno's widow sue says her husband was a moral, disciplined

man who never twisted the truth to avoid publicity. those are your headlines, when we return, are any of the president's nominations in peril? our political panel is up next. come on. nowadays, lots of people go by themselves. no they don't. yeah... hey son. have fun tonight. ♪ prom! [ laughs ] ♪ ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ back against the wall ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ keep you down and make you crawl ♪ ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ cut you down when you feel tall ♪ ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ ain't nothin to me [ crowd murmurs ] [ cheering ] hey! ♪ ain't nothin to me

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then you're going to love this. right now they're only $14.95! wow-a grt deal just got a whole lot better. hurry. $14.95 won't last. joining me around the table, cnn national correspondent jim acosta. jan shi jan schikowski. we have to start out with the state of the union, because it's coming, and it's an annual washington show. what do you expect to see?

>> i -- i am told and hope that the president is going to pivot to the economy. i was disappointed in the inaugural speech that the number up with issue in america right now, jobs and the economy, was hardly mentioned. i think now we've got to talk about the debt, the deficit, getting america's fiscal house in order and create jobs for almost 8% of our population who don't have them. >> congressman, a preview in the retreat, where the democrats are. what's your sense of what the president tonally and substantively? >> i think it will be very optimistic. i hope he talks about the successes of the economy, creating nearly 6 million jobs, discretionary spending the lowest level since 1976 and we have reduced the deficit by half. that we need to do. but he's going to talk about the

new initiatives to make the economy work for everybody, investments, growth. >> investments is also spending. therein we immediately see the republican seat. >> when we talk about creating jobs, talking about deficit reduction that the least emphasized method of reducing the deficit, we talk about spending, we talk about revenue, growth, and he wants to emphasize that we need to make investments in infrastructure, in education, in manufacturing, in clean energy and we'll hear about that. >> and the cloud hanging over all of this is the fact that there is this discussion about, oh, what, two something weeks, the entire budget could be turned on its head with the sequestration. across the board cuts and two sides that seem as far apart as ever on this issue. that will have a real impact both on the politics of what is going on in washington, as well as the economy. >> i was struck by your

interview with rand paul, the sequestration was a pittance. that's a lot of money and you have the defense secretary and john brennan, lots of people saying the sequestration is a threat to the nation's security at this point, and yet rand paul is calling this a pittance, a tea party response to marco rubio. there is this ideological pull. the threat of being primaried. interesting to see how far they are willing to go in this process. >> purely political note, and not policy, what is going to be most interesting to you as you watch this? >> i think it's the fact that the president is going to be speaking directly to the middle class right now. this is what you can hope is going to better your life right now. you know, the -- the issue about the -- the deficit and the debt, we cannot have government fixing its budget problems by making it worse for american families, for senior citizens, businesses, and that's what aussterity does,

what sequester does, make it worse. >> i'm going to look at immigration. this is an issue where had the president brought this up a year ago, year and a half ago, would you have seen democrats stand and clap and a lot of republicans sitting down, when he talks about immigration reform, everybody will stand up. >> one of the best things about not being in the senate anymore is not having to sit in that room and either stand up and clap every 15 seconds or sit on your hands for the whole thing. i wish so much we would have a moratorium on standing and let everybody listen like the people outside the country are. >> i love that idea. >> but that's the political -- >> before you answer, i want to play something. this was in dr. ben carson. he is a world-renowned

pediatripedi pedestripediatric neurosurgeon. he was at the prayer breakfast and talking about the idea of weaving the bible into some objections he appears to have with the president's approach. take a listen. >> when i pick up my bible, you know what i see? i see the fairest individual in the universe, god, and he's given us a system. it's called tithe. we don't necessarily have to do 10%, but this principal, he didn't say if your crops fail, don't give me any tithe, if your crop is bumper, give me triple tithe. >> this is going for the venue and number two, the person doing this. this is the first time i have seen him on the national stage. what did you think of that? >> it reminded me of the prayer breakfast i went to when mother teresa was talking and bill and

hillary clinton were sitting there, talking about how bad abortion is. so uncomfortable in the room watching that, and i'm told the prayer breakfast with this gentleman was the same. but i think his -- his other point, his main point was political correctness has just gone beyond bizarre, and we have got to come down to reality here and people have to be able to kind of relax and talk about how they want to talk, and, you know, i just thought it was a great message. >> did you find anything offensive with -- certainly it's america, he's entitled to his opinion. a lot of the talk was about was this the right place to do it? and lots of applause from republicans, finally somebody stood up and said it? >> i think there is a political correctness he was trying to use to appeal to a conservative audience. i think it's really not -- not

really an appropriate place to make this kind of political speech. and to invoke god as his support for that kin of point of view, but i think most of all the kind of message that he was giving shows a real empathy gap of where the american people are right now, and i think it's reflective of where many of the republicans and tea parties are right now that we need to have an economy that works for everyone. >> move you all along to something and that is senator menendez. this seems to keep bubbling, just in brief and so many things out there. but in brief, what has been alleged is that the senator did a lot of things at least on the surface that look like they might have been inappropriate. intervening on behalf of a big donor, who also seems to be under investigation. that's the broad brush of it. >> it's amazing to me that

amonday mousamo anonymous, nameless, faceless individuals on a website can drive that type of story into the mainstream, but that's what they have done successfully. >> now from "the new york times" saturday, instead of trying to protect mr. menendez, a new jersey democrat, the senate majority leader harry reid needs to remove his gavel pending credible resolution by the senate ethics committee of the swirling accusations of misconduct. is senator menendez in -- in trouble or at least in danger of temporarily losing? he just became the chair of this committee? >> i had a chance to ask harry reid about this at a news conference a couple of weeks ago, and senator reid is giving no indication whatsoever that he is going to take the gavel away, and senator menendez is right about some of the allegations, some of the others that popped up in the conservative news side, the daily caller, no evidence to correspond roborate.

the political -- >> almost two years late. >> and did not put them on his disclosure form is a problem for him. >> two weeks ago is one thing. now -- i mean "the new york times" calling for a democrat to remove a democrat from a committee is fairly noteworthy. >> let's say new jersey doesn't exactly have the best record when it comes to ethics in government. what "the new york times" has seen is what many people who live in new jersey or the new york region have seen, which is they're sort of a drip, drip, drip of the new jersey politician that starts off looking like one thing and turns into a much bigger story that obviously was the case with bob torricelli, the former senator who ended up resigning and then we learned a lot about what he got from a very big donor of his. this is where the question is. can the ethics committee really dig into the relationship between this big donor and menendez, who, by the way, is also a donor to republicans and who's also a donor to super pacs, so this goes back to the

heart of our issue with electoral politics. money plays a big part. >> i've got 15 seconds. should senator reid remove temporarily senator menendez? >> i think you have to get to the bottom of it first. i do think he's got to have a chance to stay, look, here's what the facts are and i am going to keep the gavel or there has to be a quick investigation, it can't drag on and on and on. but i think he's had a fair chance. >> i want to thank you for joining us. come back and we'll talk a little more slowly and maybe a little longer. thank you so much. last year, the u.s. made over 6 billion pennies and for more than one cent each. why not ditch it and round to the nearest nickel? copd makes it hard to breathe, but with advair, i'm breathing better.

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and finally, a sunday math quiz. if the cost of producing and distributing something is twice as much as you can get for it, why bother? which brings us to making sense of the u.s. penny. last week canada, producing its pennies for much more than their first a value, stopped minting and starting melting.

jim kolbe tried for years to get the u.s. congress to do the same because pennies are expensive to make, virtually worthless to have, and time consuming. >> if you add up the time at every convenience store of fishing out those pennies and making the change in that, you multiply that by the hundreds and tens of hundreds of millions of transactions a year, you're talking about timewise a tremendous amount of savings. >> and as the chairman of the council on economic advisers under george w. bush put it, "when people start leaving a monetary unit at the cash register for the next customer, the unit is too small to be useful." still, the penny remains in play. for starters, there is the arguable contention that everything will cost more because stores will round up their prices. then there are the pro-penny forces, including a penny preservation lobbying group started by a big zinc company. they're 97% zinc.

and there's no political push against the penny. a poll last year found that even though many americans give away, lose, otherwise ignore penny, 67% want to keep them away. a professor testified in 1990 for the pro-penny lobby. he actually thinks the economic case for getting rid of pennies the stronger now. he doesn't see it happening under this particular president. >> i can't imagine a former member of congress from illinois is going to lead the way to get rid of the lincoln penny. >> sentimentality aside, abe and his monument are also on the $5 bill, the economic case for a penniless u.s. grows more compelling, giving ex-congre ex-congressman kolbe hope. >> when people find out about the savings they'll make it's substantial and they're willing to make this change. >> according to the congressman, not minting pennies would save the u.s. treasury about $45 million a year. and while we're on the subject, switch prg the paper dollar to a